I'd rather have root canals on all my teeth and then have them all pulled out while wide awake, before I went back.
Meetings are pretty much like dentist appointments, except the pain is in your head and your ass at the same time.
Juan Viejo2
JoinedPosts by Juan Viejo2
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44
Could you ever go back?
by MrFreeze innot that i'm thinking about it, even for a brief nano-second, but something i have thought about is this, is there any way you could go back and not have people look at you with the stink eye?
after admitting your true feelings, how in the world could people ever look at you the same?
if you were in the situation of welcoming someone back, would you be able to look past the errors?
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Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux
by Juan Viejo2 inthis message is important!
timing is critical!.
those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .
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Juan Viejo2
mamalove - watch for an announcement in the next few days.
Scott77 - I contacted both the ACLU and the Americans for Separation of Church and State. While they sympathized with the situation in Menlo Park, they explained that their focus is directed to cases where a government entity olr elected official is involved in either promoting or publicly supporting religious ideals or teachings. They do not involve themselves in cases where there is a disagreement between churches and their members. My contact at the ACLU simply told me that they should pursue the case in the civil courts and then find themselves another religion. "Why would anyone want to belong to a church that treated its own members so poorly?" was one comment.
I've been unsuccessful in contacting anyone directly involved in the Bonham, Tx case, but I did hear from an anonymous someone relatively close to the situation. His summation was that the brothers who fought the WT over the old Kingdom Hall "won the battle, but lost the war." Very few of them remain JWs and the rest ended up going to the new KH and asked for reinstatement. Again, I have no way to confirm any of that information, but I have heard similar stories in the past. Maybe Randy Watters or some of the other posters might have better and later information they can share.
The local brothers in Menlo Park who are the plaintiffs do not really want to get too much publicity about this case, so have not gone to the newspapers themselves. I was contacted by a local newspaper reporter about the case, but I've only shared those facts that are clearly public and available in court documents. My contacts continue to remain anonymous, even to me, and give me only sketchy information. Some of my contacts claim not to be JWs themselves, but only friends or distant relatives to the principal players. I have been told that the principals will not talk to me because I am an "apostate," which might complicate their situation with the Society's rules. It certainly complicates my involvement in the case because that makes everything I am getting "hearsay" or unconfirmed by any of the primary players.
The whole case, while interesting and rife with possibilities, has become very difficult to work with and frustrating. Some of the members of the local congregations have contacted me (again anonymously) and seem to be equally divided in their support for the plaintiffs. I think most of them really support the brothers personally, but are afraid to take a stand publicly for fear of being DF'd or otherwise punished themselves. While most agree that the CO, DO and others were totally out of line in their actions, being "too rough and pushy" and "drunk with their own power," they still feel that they did have the support of the Watchtower headquarters and therefore have the authority to do as they felt was necessary.
Last I heard, the plaintiffs are in line to be DFd, but I have not been able to verify that, nor do I know their current status. Apparently they are not attending any of the local Kingdom Halls because of fear of creating a scene. They apparently want to go (who knows why?), but don't want to expose themselves to possible abuse or threat of arrest.
Devil_Fish - are you out there? Check your PMs.
JV
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Did Phillip fart? (or, was it the Queen?)
by Lion Cask inthe facial expressions tell it all.. (thank you, babayaga, for the tutorial).
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Juan Viejo2
Yes, I know they must be fun to joke about.
They all look like they are dressed to go wage war in the Crimea, leading the 600 Light Cavalry - especially Anne.
Elizabeth looks like she's thinking, "Oh go ahead and have your fun on your horsies, swinging your swords, and acting brave. But leave me out of it. I want to go in and watch the telly."
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Juan Viejo2
I imagine most angels would see men and women having sex, "bumpin' their uglies," and just go "oooooooooooh! ecccchhhh! gaggggg!" and then vomit all over the golden streets...
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Let's study the Organization and dress up like Rutherford!
by Rank&FileGuy instudy the bible on family worship night?
nah!
let's study the organization and dress up like rutherford!
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Juan Viejo2
I think I'm ready. How do I look?
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Evaluating Raymond Franz
by greendawn inwhat do you think of ray(mond) franz?
i have seen here some people critisise him as not being a really heartfelt opponent of the wts, but my view is that he was quite honest about his expressed motives against the cult.
with his revelations he gave a lot of momentum to the ex jw movement (the apostate organisation according to the jws) and offered valuable assistance to those seeking to shake off the ideological and social dependance on the oppressive cult.
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Juan Viejo2
Schnell's book came out when I was still just a kid JW. I remember hearing about it. When it was mentioned Schnell was always described as being "demon possessed," or as someone who was angry because he wasn't moved up in the organization fast enough. He was described as a very angry person. I did not actually read his book until sometime in the late 1970s.
When Schnell's book came out, the Watchtower authorized Marley Cole to write his book around 1952. This was a standard hardcover book. Later, I found out that Cole was a JW and that the Watchtower provided some of the funds for the publication of the book. Every JW family rushed out to buy a copy, so for a brief time it was on the best seller lists. Talk about a kiss-ass piece of sh3t.
Just a few years later, A. H. MacMillan wrote "Faith on the March." Again, the Watchtower Society funded the publication of his book (MacMillan could not afford to publish it - he was a member of the Bethel family). MacMillan was an associate of both Russell and Rutherford, so his perspective was interesting from a historical perspective. But later on I found out that much of the material in his book was actually partly written and approved by the Writing Committee at Bethel. It was sort of a precursor to the "Proclaimers" book.
Franz's first book was the first one that I read that seemed to be an honest reporting job of the WT's history and the events that surrounded the 1975 debacle and the formation of the Governing Body. As you read it, you can almost imagine Ray sitting in the room with you and just telling his story in an honest and forthright way. As many have mentioned before, I did not see any anger in his writings, but there was frustration and a feeling that many good deeds were left undone by those who had it in their power to correct the errors and the course that the Society was taking.
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Juan Viejo2
While looking at that young fellow holding the microphone just that way in front of the sister, I came up with the perfect caption for what he was really thinking...
But I'd be banned from this forum if I actually shared it with the rest of you. If you're as perverted as I am, you've probably already thought of it yourself.
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Did Phillip fart? (or, was it the Queen?)
by Lion Cask inthe facial expressions tell it all.. (thank you, babayaga, for the tutorial).
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Juan Viejo2
Notice that Princess Anne is wearing a military uniform with a fair number of medals. How does that happen? She was never in the military. She's got as many medals as Charles does. At least he was in the Navy. Where's Andrew? He fought in the Falklands War. Maybe Anne is wearing Andrew's or Edwards uniform because they couldn't make it. Prince Phillip did serve briefly during WW2 I believe.
So the royalty earns medals just for being royals. What bullcrap is that?
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this from march 15 tower
by therevealer inis this just to inane for words.
most of the lumber looks sawn rather than hewn.
are they planning or arguing?
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Juan Viejo2
Looks like Michael McDonald and his three sons, Michael Jr., Prince Michael, and Ham.
Spoked wheels on wagons were not developed until the late middle ages and were only found in Western European locales.
This is supposedly taking place during the Bronze Age. Axes yes, saws unlikely. Saws would not appear until the Iron Age.
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Juan Viejo2
Ever notice how Jehovah creates all these desires and needs for humans and angels, and then makes them go without?
If humans were only created as male and female to procreate, then why were men programmed to be polygamous and anxious to bed any attractive female (in the case of hetero males), or men and boys (in the case of homosexuals) that they might come across? Why were women given a clitoris?
In Genesis, the first human couple was told "to go out and multiply and fill the earth." Last time I checked, that can only be accomplished with sexual contact. And yet from Biblical times (and especially during the Christian era) sex has been portrayed as a sin, only to be engaged in on rare occasions between heterosexual married couples in order to provide male heirs and soldiers. Notice that the sons of Adam are all named, but not one of his many daughters is ever identified?
Supposedly God programmed us to have raging hormones between the ages of 15 and 35, and yet we are all told that use of sexual connections and masturbation to relieve those urges is somehow sinful.
The Watchtower's graphic descriptions of "beautiful angelic creatures" - which are always white northern European looking males - often include features that would indicate high levels of testosterone (muscles, beards, etc.) and usually with birdlike wings. Right. Uh huh. That makes total sense to me.
Let's face it, the Watchtower has just taken Christendom's concepts of God, Jesus, and other heavenly creatures and adapted them for their own uses. My guess is that if angels really exist, they would be ethereal and holographic creatures, with no particular sex or form to them.
The real Jesus, being a Middle Eastern Hebrew who often fasted and traveled throughout the countryside on foot, would most likely have had a darker complexion, an untrimmed beard and long unstyled hair, and would probably have worn dark clothes to hide the dirt. For years, the Watchtower showed Jesus as a closely shaved, beardless, European male dressed in all white garments - while his followers tended to look more typical for the place and time they were living in.
But back to sex: Let's face it...the Watchtower is just like every other religion in that it alone wants to define what its followers may or may not do behind closed doors with the opposite sex. Russell, Rutherford, Fred Franz, Knorr, and most of the original Bethel Boys were all confused sexually or horrible husbands and fathers. They were the ones who told the rest of us how to manage our personal and family lives - all the time being either clueless or criminally hypocritical about sex and human relationships.
